Please don't take this wrong, but some things really are better left alone. The publicity from the occasional newspaper or magazine article is damaging enough, I can only imagine the impact of a letterboxing link on the home page of the Metroparks.

Same goes for the MI State Parks. This is a very delicate issue and it is currently on the books that both geocaching and letterboxing are not allowed in MI State Parks without a permit and a fee, although few parks have the resources or the inclination to enforce this. The Michigan geocaching organization has been working very diligently with the MI DNR on this issue. Although pressure and requests from others could have a positive impact, it could just as easily have a negative impact, losing progress that MIGO has already made.

For the past several years, we have chosen to peacefully "co-exist" with the parks systems in MI -- for good reason -- it works this way. If every letterboxer does their part to ensure that they are not placing boxes in eco-sensitive areas, we are in essence policing ourselves and not drawing undue attention to letterboxing.

Just my 2 cents...

SpringChick

----- Original Message -----
From: redfirestudio1
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 10:27 AM
Subject: [LbNA] Michigan Metroparks approved planting LB!


Hi to all the Southeast Michigan boxers out there (and those Boxers
wishing to plant in Southeast MI regardless of your dwelling
location!) -

I have succeeded in getting official approval from the Huron-Clinton
Metroparks System for us to place letterboxes in the parks :) This
means that the park rangers are aware of the sport of Letterboxing,
know where the boxes are, and won't remove or dispose of them.

The Metroparks will be adding a Letterboxing dropdown on their
website (www.metroparks.com) as well as other fun goodies!

The only thing they ask in return is for us to fill out a permit. The
permit is free and you can either e-mail, mail or fax the completed
permit with clues to Tim Philips. Once the permit and clues are
approved, you can then place your box. (They just want to ensure it's
not placed in a sensitive area, etc.)

Tim's contact info is:

Tim Phillips
Huron-Clinton Metropolitan Authority
Administrative Offices
13000 High Ridge Drive
Brighton, MI 48114-9058
tim.phillips@metroparks.com

Just wanted to share this happy news - yahoo! Now if I could just get
the Michigan State Parks to endorse LB (like the CT State Park
systems did!)....I'm working on that too!

I'm so excited!:)

SunFleur
*clapping hands!*






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In a message dated 6/2/2006 10:53:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mjwebb03@comcast.net writes:
Just wanted to share this happy news - yahoo! Now if I could just get
the Michigan State Parks to endorse LB (like the CT State Park
systems did!)....I'm working on that too!
That is wonderful.!!!! What amazes me is when parks don't allow for this
passive ...kinda.. activity then complain when the parks are under used!!

I just found out recently that the Connecticut DEP has 16 boxes and if 6 are
found and documented the DEP will issue a patch.
When school is out I am planning to take my grandsons and a nephew and begin
our adventure into the woods of Connecticut. They are video kids so this will
be interesting. This is my part for the Ct program "No kid left inside"...no
grandma left inside either. LOL We are working on our team name now, gathering
our supplies and checking out maps.

In Her light
DancingStar


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I love the program name...and maybe this one will work! Too cute!

MDHASZ@aol.com wrote: They are video kids so this will
be interesting. This is my part for the Ct program "No kid left inside"...no
grandma left inside either. LOL We are working on our team name now, gathering
our supplies and checking out maps.

In Her light
DancingStar


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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SpringChick,

I agree with one of your two cents. But I must disagree with the other
cent.

I am all for being stealthy and waxing philosophical about the
forgiveness v permission concept. I'd rather plant thinking that I can
rather than not planting because I know I can't. I've thought about
asking permission from the various park systems and municipalities in
which I've planted, but decided not to - except for one.

The best way to participate in our innocent activity is to be
cautious, stealthy and fly under the radar -- especially when you're
Out There. That's where I agree with you.

As I said, I've only asked for permission once, and thankfully it has
worked out well. Which is why I have to disagree. Because for every
letterboxer who plays by the rules, goes through the motions and gets
the local and state authorities on our side and willing to let us play
our game, there is another one on the list that we can present to
those who refuse to cooperate. (FOR MORE ON THAT LIST, SEE THE
DATABASE SECTION.)

( <<<<---- OVER THERE )

Case in point: a rather nice state park with some historical charm
here in the southeast just confiscated two letterboxes because they
"were in violation of such-and-such code regarding gaming activities".
Never mind that the part about the code indicating that the presence
of or public participation in such "illegal gaming" (good grief!) is,
according to the "code", left up to the park manager's discretion.

I know the folks who planted those boxes, and they're the sweetest ol'
couple... and the boxes have since been retired. So even their gentle
southern charm couldn't convince the weasel -- oops, I mean manager --
to give them (and the rest of us) a break.

Now, there is one muddy area: where the park system gets so excited
about it that it is willing to advertise it on the website. I do have
to wonder... how much traffic does a park system's website get, and,
more importantly, who is visiting? It's probably not your average
letterbox-napping hoodlums or cretins. But I'm not stoking that fire
right now...

Let me just say (on behalf of those areas where there the
letterbox(er) population is low), it could add a couple more parties
to the mix. But here is another case where we must be careful:
somebody has to show interested parties the ropes, get faces to the
names, make sure it doesn't get out of hand. I believe that's in the
purview of the folks who initiated the formal process of requesting
permission, eh? ;-)

It's like I always say...

"Letterboxes: our parks wouldn't be the same without them!"

StarSaels





--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "SpringChick" wrote:
>
> Please don't take this wrong, but some things really are better left
alone. The publicity from the occasional newspaper or magazine
article is damaging enough, I can only imagine the impact of a
letterboxing link on the home page of the Metroparks.
>
> Same goes for the MI State Parks. This is a very delicate issue and
it is currently on the books that both geocaching and letterboxing are
not allowed in MI State Parks without a permit and a fee, although few
parks have the resources or the inclination to enforce this. The
Michigan geocaching organization has been working very diligently with
the MI DNR on this issue. Although pressure and requests from others
could have a positive impact, it could just as easily have a negative
impact, losing progress that MIGO has already made.
>
> For the past several years, we have chosen to peacefully "co-exist"
with the parks systems in MI -- for good reason -- it works this way.
If every letterboxer does their part to ensure that they are not
placing boxes in eco-sensitive areas, we are in essence policing
ourselves and not drawing undue attention to letterboxing.
>
> Just my 2 cents...
>
> SpringChick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: redfirestudio1
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 10:27 AM
> Subject: [LbNA] Michigan Metroparks approved planting LB!
>
>
> Hi to all the Southeast Michigan boxers out there (and those Boxers
> wishing to plant in Southeast MI regardless of your dwelling
> location!) -
>
> I have succeeded in getting official approval from the Huron-Clinton
> Metroparks System for us to place letterboxes in the parks :) This
> means that the park rangers are aware of the sport of Letterboxing,
> know where the boxes are, and won't remove or dispose of them.
>
> The Metroparks will be adding a Letterboxing dropdown on their
> website (www.metroparks.com) as well as other fun goodies!
>
> The only thing they ask in return is for us to fill out a permit. The
> permit is free and you can either e-mail, mail or fax the completed
> permit with clues to Tim Philips. Once the permit and clues are
> approved, you can then place your box. (They just want to ensure it's
> not placed in a sensitive area, etc.)
>
> Tim's contact info is:
>
> Tim Phillips
> Huron-Clinton Metropolitan Authority
> Administrative Offices
> 13000 High Ridge Drive
> Brighton, MI 48114-9058
> tim.phillips@...
>
> Just wanted to share this happy news - yahoo! Now if I could just get
> the Michigan State Parks to endorse LB (like the CT State Park
> systems did!)....I'm working on that too!
>
> I'm so excited!:)
>
> SunFleur
> *clapping hands!*
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Gsi outdoors Outdoors The great outdoors
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> a.. Visit your group "letterbox-usa" on the web.
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> letterbox-usa-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
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>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I'm with you on this one, Star. I think every positive encounter a
boxer has with a cooperative park manager creates one more letter that
can be used to convince an uncooperative one. I also think it helps to
have more than one person asking, instead of appointing a spokesperson
as it shows the the mgmt the true size and popularity of this hobby.
AND where one personality/voice might fail, another one might go over
better. My style may not work as best as someone else's and vice versa.

I also think it is best to start a park with historical/nature based
stamps pertaining to that area to highlight boxing as a learning
experience that creates a win-win situation for the park and the boxer.
I also learned from Alafair that it is best to ask the park to suggest
planting spots so you can avoid placing them in sensitive areas.
Another great idea is to offer a free letterboxing workshop for
families. These places are always looking for low cost programming that
fits in with their mission. I write grants for a living and deal with
this kind of thing all the time.

And lastly, the cat is out of the bag when it comes to letterboxing.
Get over it. Articles have been written in major magazines and local
newspapers and television have covered it in all the major parts of the
country. Rather than bemoan the loss of the secrecy aspect, why not
embrace this as an opportunity to educate the masses on good
letterboxing etiquette? "La Pepe" has counseled me many times on
this...that it is good education that will see letterboxing into the
next century. And if you miss the secrecy, you can always employ WOM,
harder clues to discourage slackboxers, a secret local society of
boxers or other devices.

Thanks for the opportunity to post my personal opinion -

LW

I had to do that with a local park near me. They gave me free reign to plant as long as I set up a booth for thier annual family day. So I did and it went well. Lot's of folks tried making personal stamps out of the fun foam I provided then went after my pre-planted boxes. Out of all of them I think maybe one family actually became letterboxers. The others moved on to something else.

Hey LW, I've never met Mark Pepe but have seen pictures and he seems like a manly sort to me. Shouldn't it be "El Pepe"? Or do you know something about Mark that I don't....let's ask Sue!

Cyndie wrote:
Another great idea is to offer a free letterboxing workshop for
families. These places are always looking for low cost programming that
fits in with their mission.

"La Pepe" has counseled me many times


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A BOOTH!? Wow! Fantastic!

I think that thought had crossed my mind... briefly... when
considering the 2nd annual letterboxing pow-wow... but then I thought,
I'm not an American Indian (I am a native American, as I was born
here... and that's why most American Indians prefer to be called
American Indians... that's verified through extensive research... but
I digress!)

Maybe there IS a way to make money out of letterboxing... do arts &
crafts trade shows... sell letterboxing supplies... wow!

Okay, I've gone off the deep end...

SteveS


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Hikers_n_ Hounds
wrote:
>
> I had to do that with a local park near me. They gave me free reign
to plant as long as I set up a booth for thier annual family day. So I
did and it went well. Lot's of folks tried making personal stamps out
of the fun foam I provided then went after my pre-planted boxes. Out
of all of them I think maybe one family actually became letterboxers.
The others moved on to something else.
>
> Hey LW, I've never met Mark Pepe but have seen pictures and he
seems like a manly sort to me. Shouldn't it be "El Pepe"? Or do you
know something about Mark that I don't....let's ask Sue!
>
> Cyndie wrote:
> Another great idea is to offer a free letterboxing workshop for
> families. These places are always looking for low cost programming that
> fits in with their mission.
>
> "La Pepe" has counseled me many times
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1/min with
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Cyndie" wrote:

> ... the cat is out of the bag when it comes to letterboxing.
> Get over it. Articles have been written in major magazines and local
> newspapers and television have covered it...

Yes, the cat is out of the bag. But I can still turn around in the
checkout line at the grocery store (or, heaven forbid, Wal-Mart (hey,
I gotta get my blue-rimmed Rubbermaid somewhere!!)) and not see
somebody with an LbNa or LbSe insignia on them.


> ... And if you miss the secrecy, you can always employ WOM,
> harder clues to discourage slackboxers, a secret local society of
> boxers or other devices.

Hey, a secret society... like the Skulls or the Dead Poets' Society.
Sounds like a cool idea. Let's just not call it the Dead Letterbox
Society...

SteveS

Nope, not for me. I happily spend too much money on letterboxing. I work hard and play hard. The money I earn makes it possible for me to play.

StarSaels wrote: Maybe there IS a way to make money out of letterboxing

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--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "SpringChick" wrote:
>
> Please don't take this wrong, but some things really are better left
alone. The publicity from the occasional newspaper or magazine
article is damaging enough, I can only imagine the impact of a
letterboxing link on the home page of the Metroparks.


REPLY:

I really, really don't mean to rub it in... but check out the links on
this page:

http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/things-to-do/activities.asp

Oh, you're not rubbing it in -- only displaying your ignorance. Letterboxing in the US is not the same as it is in the UK. The game is not played the same, the perception is not the same. If in the US, we had the support of the National Parks as they do in the UK, then perhaps it would be a different game. But we don't and the more widespread and public the hobby becomes, the more movement there has been on the part of parks on other levels to follow the lead of the National Parks.

I am only speaking from my personal experience when I state my opinions. I trust you are speaking from your personal experience also. Obviously we have had different experiences in this area. So it appears we will have to agree to disagree.

SpringChick

----- Original Message -----
From: StarSaels
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Michigan Metroparks approved planting LB!


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "SpringChick" wrote:
>
> Please don't take this wrong, but some things really are better left
alone. The publicity from the occasional newspaper or magazine
article is damaging enough, I can only imagine the impact of a
letterboxing link on the home page of the Metroparks.


REPLY:

I really, really don't mean to rub it in... but check out the links on
this page:

http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/things-to-do/activities.asp







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--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "SpringChick"
wrote:
>
> Oh, you're not rubbing it in -- only displaying your ignorance.


Now, now...I know there is some perverse tradition for attacking
people personally on this big list, but let's try to set an example
for new people.

SC - I agree with you more often than not but ignorance is a LONG way
from uninformed. I believe this was the situation here. No harm. No
foul.

Now just get out there and box! :)

LW

Oops, sorry... will consult my Thesaurus for more politically correct word choices in the future.

SC

----- Original Message -----
From: Cyndie
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Michigan Metroparks approved planting LB!


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "SpringChick"
wrote:
>
> Oh, you're not rubbing it in -- only displaying your ignorance.


Now, now...I know there is some perverse tradition for attacking
people personally on this big list, but let's try to set an example
for new people.

SC - I agree with you more often than not but ignorance is a LONG way
from uninformed. I believe this was the situation here. No harm. No
foul.

Now just get out there and box! :)

LW






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